Could this be the original Manichean Cross?:
"Those who advocate using the crucifix in the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church instead of the Mar Thoma Cross claim that the Mar Thoma Cross is actually the "Manichean Cross" a symbol of Manicheanism (a heretical early Christian sect that blended Christian and Zoroastrian beliefs and whose founder, Manichee, claimed to be the incarnation of the Holy Spirit)."
The cross has a dove above it representing the Holy Spirit. The lotus below is meant to represent the Father. The lotus in the East also represents the flowering of great beauty from the sludge and slime. Perhaps here, another symbol of the good overcoming evil and its results.
The following is about the fuss this cross has caused in the Mar Thoma Church:
"The warring factions in the Church could be described as the traditionalists and the reformists. The traditionalists maintain that the Syro-Malabar Church is a daughter-Church of the Chaldean Church with headquarters in Baghdad. They are for the adoption of the whole East Syrian (Chaldean) liturgy said to be prevalent in the Church in Kerala from the fifth century to the 16th century when the Latin Church established its sway with the advent of the Portuguese.
"According to the reformists, the traditionalists are for the removal of the crucifix and abolition of prayers like Rosary and Way of the Cross among other things and for the introduction of `Chaldean vestiges' like the Persian Cross, sanctuary veil and `Bema,' (a separate table to be placed in the front or in the middle of the aisle).
"The crucifix has disappeared from many convents which easily succumbed to the Chaldean propaganda,'' says noted religious scholar Prof. Scaria Zacharia. The crucifix, a matter of great religious and emotional attachment is being replaced by what is called the `Mar Thoma Cross'. The reformists contend that this cross is the Manichean Cross, a symbol of a heretic Church of a non-Catholic origin, which has since become defunct."
THE MARTHOMA CROSS IS INDEED A MANICHAEN CROSS AND IS HERETIC !THE BASE OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH IS THE HOLY SCRIPTURE AND THE HOLY TRADITION.WHERE FRO THESE PEOPLE GOT THIS CROSS?SOME MODERN THEOLOGIANS PLAN AND INTRODUCE THE RFEORMS AGAINST THE WILL OF GOD.DOES ANYBODY THINK THAT THEY ARE LED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT?HOW CAN BE THE LOTUS REPRESENT THE HEAVENLY FATHER !LET'S SEE WHAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS, PLEASE READ JOB 40:21-22.ALSO DANIEL 11:31-32,MATTHEW 24:15.OH LOVING JESUS HELP US TO SURVIVE THIS APOSTACY !!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen any real evidence, archeologically, that this cross was used by the Manicheans.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the lotus representing the Father, who claims that? It may- it's a good symbol. The Hindus depict Brahma on a lotus. The lotus usually represents purity deriving out from a muddy mess.
The stream of Mani is a Christian religion- there is no doubt about that.
It is most likely that the Manicheans adopted this cross from the Christians along with other beliefs. This cross seems to be used by many other christians around the world. It is very unlikely that the early christians in these regions were Manicheans.
DeleteIt appears the Manicheans in India at one time
ReplyDeletejoined the Mar Thoma Church rather than face extinction. They took with them some of their customs (such as their cross).
BTW hear is a good description of the martyrdom of St. Thomas:
"In "The Acts of Judas Thuma", Bardaisan had described St. Thomas's death. While St. Thomas was travelling for his Gospel work in the land of king Mazdai, a lady by name Magdonia, who believed in Christ, came in a chariot to see him. She was the wife of a close friend of the King. St Thomas baptized her. On a complaint filed by her husband
with the King, St Thomas was arrested and put into jail so that he might repent. While in jail he converted the Queen, Theresa, to Christianity (Thersamma is a common name among Christians). This made the King more angry. He ordered that St Thomas be killed. Four soldiers took him half a mile away from the palace and killed him by piercing on the back with a spear made up of pinewood. He was buried in a tomb near by that had been prepared to bury kings. The place
where he was buried is known as Calamina."
Now more on the Mar Thoma Church. There seems to have been some other incorporations of Manichean way into the service:
"Eric Lott who was Professor of Religion in U.T. College, Bangalore gives some common features of Enculturation of Liturgy both in the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches in India, in the Book, 'Worship in an Indian Context'. They are the following:
"The adoption of a more characteristically Indian worship posture such as leaving foot wear outside the worship, sitting on the floor, prostrating, sitting in circular form, communicating peace through the Namaste gesture etc.
"The use of Indian musical instruments such as Tabla, Mridangam, tribal drum, flute and cymbals.
"The emphasis on lyrical singing and chanting prayers and praises etc. The Bhajans, Namjapa often with an attitude of sharanam (refuge) in response to the calling of the divine titles. The ancient mystic syllable "am" is also chanted at the beginning of some services.
"Considerable significance is also given to the lighting of lamp, centrally placed as an initial act of worship.
"There are frequent pauses for silent meditation.
"Flowers are offered as part of the main offering.
"Offerings also include fruit, broken coconut and camphor, incense too may well be burnt as part of offering.
"All worshippers bring up their offering to the central place or they may be placed in brass pots at the entrance.
"In some services sandal paste, ash etc. may be applied to the forehead.
"There is generally emphasis on awakened consciousness, God
consciousness and commitment to social action."
Can anyone prove with evidence that Manicheans used a cross?
ReplyDeleteI have seen no evidence for it.
Delete"The pain suffered by the imprisoned Light-Particles in the whole of the visible universe, on the other hand, was real and immanent. This was symbolized by the mystic placing of the Cross whereby the wounds of the passion of our souls are set forth. On this mystical Cross of Light was suspended the Suffering Jesus (Jesus patibilis) who was the life and salvation of Man. This mystica cruxificio was present in every tree, herb, fruit, vegetable and even stones and the soil." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism
Check how manichaens used Cross, resembling to Mar Thoma Cross
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaean_Painting_of_the_Buddha_Jesus
it is better to to think in the other way that the Manicheans might have used the icons from Christianity rather than the reverse.
Deletemany are used to meditation of the passion seeing the crucifix. so it is in the love of Jesus to use the crucifix too with other crosses of beauty.
ReplyDeleteIt is right to use the crucifix for prayer and meditation. Of late petty minded came up with the cross to prove their legacy. It not reasonable to remove the crucifix from the altar. The word catholic has the meaning all embracing. The prefix Roman Catholic does not suit your heritage. You removed the crucifix from the place of worship for fancy reasons. Think!.
ReplyDeletePersian Crosses of South India and Its Possible Manichaean Origin
ReplyDeletehttps://jeephilip.blogspot.com/2013/07/persian-crosses-of-south-india-and-its_11.html
https://eastern-witness.blogspot.com/2012/08/mar-thoma-sleeva.html
ReplyDeleteThe Nestorians were syncretic! (Thus Buddhist symbolism etc.) Nestorianism is a polysemic term! (This has been hidden from a lot of people.) They permitted diversity. I think the cross was just a Nestorian cross which originally was not "Nestorian" in any way but a symbol of the people in Mesopotamia but the people became associated with Nestorianism, thus becoming an ethno-religious group. Scholars will usually downplay any idea that is not normative in their eyes. This is typical of those doing Religious studies that seeks to distort the practices of societies outside the Western world and interpret them according to Christian norms. It is a colonial thing. I admire your courage for cracking the shell but I am not sure if I will fully agree with your point.
ReplyDeleteYou can get all historical information and evidence from this book Unmasking the Syriacs: THE HIDDEN ORIGIN OF INDIAN CHRISTIANITY: An Archaeo-linguistic Approach.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.amazon.com/Unmasking-Syriacs-CHRISTIANITY-Archaeo-linguistic-Approach/dp/145839123X